E85

[Tom]

Who runs E85? What are your experiences?

[zex_cool]

use to. love it. mpg sucks but i dont care about that shit..

[northendtrooper]

Exactly what zex says.
Pros:
Cooler operating temps because Ethanol burns cooler
You can have a huge amount of timing
All the same characteristics of 110 Octane
Usually 30cents cheaper than 93 Octane

Cons:
You can't put any load on your car if it is not up to operation temps (or so can be my issue)
30% less gas mileage
Drives like ass with the humidity being high. But in Idaho, it is not much of a worry.
If your car is not turbo, then you are getting no benifit from E85

[zex_cool]

Exactly what zex says.
Pros:
Cooler operating temps because Ethanol burns cooler
You can have a huge amount of timing
All the same characteristics of 110 Octane
Usually 30cents cheaper than 93 Octane

Cons:
You can't put any load on your car if it is not up to operation temps (or so can be my issue)
30% less gas mileage
Drives like ass with the humidity being high. But in Idaho, it is not much of a worry.
If your car is not turbo, then you are getting no benifit from E85

not true..at all! but you do need about 13.5:1 comp ratio for an n/a motor to see the benefits like boosted cars.

[northendtrooper]

Lol... ok thats if you go that far, shit.

[Tom]

not true..at all! but you do need about 13.5:1 comp ratio for an n/a motor to see the benefits like boosted cars.

I disagree. Timing helps most N/a cars make more power.

[zex_cool]

tool!! your lucky im lazy right now..

[northendtrooper]

I disagree. Timing helps most N/a cars make more power.

Lol. Thats the only way the make more power other than cams and airflow for tuning capablilities.

[Tom]

tool!! your lucky im lazy right now..

I'm shaking in my boots.

[zex_cool]

your wearing boots?? faggot!!

[goblin]

It rocks for boosted cars. Best change I made to my old car was switching to E85.

Running full boost everyday is just fun. My next build will run off e85.

Kevin

[turbo2cam]

I disagree. Timing helps most N/a cars make more power.

i agree with this. ive seen cars with bolt on's make 10whp more on e85. leaner afr's, more timing....shit even my lawn mower would make more hp by doing that. e85 isnt rocket science.

[Jserman]

isn't there only like 2 places to get E85 in boise??? that would be my biggest turn off on running E85 in a car...

why not just run meth injection???... seem like you get the same results... cooler IAT's and able to run leaner with more timing and your not restricted on where to get gas....

[northendtrooper]

One on Main and 24th st and one in Nampa somewhere. Other one is in Pokatello.

[Rob]

If people are going to talk about this they should talk about it logically... I will post a link to the 20 page report I wrote for an engineering course comparing gasoline (octane if you want to call it by its correct name), hydrogen and E85 if anyone is interested. As far as making power vs not making power is concerned. The truth is you would need either a drastically higher static compression ratio or a dynamic compression ratio (I.E. variable boost pressure) to really reap the true potential of E85. That being said, if you were to take any given engine and run it at it's stoichiometric ratio at a given condition and switch it from gas to E85... the E85 would require 33.6% more fuel to maintain a stoichiometric ratio and while doing so would produce 28.3% less energy on a per mass basis. Thus you would tend to see a slight increase in power. However, the claims that Turbo2Cam made about making more power on leaner AFR's is simply a fallacy. It is physically not possible to make more power at a leaner ratio with a fuel that has a lower energy density.

[InSepsis]

^^ +1






:)

[zex_cool]

If people are going to talk about this they should talk about it logically... I will post a link to the 20 page report I wrote for an engineering course comparing gasoline (octane if you want to call it by its correct name), hydrogen and E85 if anyone is interested. As far as making power vs not making power is concerned. The truth is you would need either a drastically higher static compression ratio or a dynamic compression ratio (I.E. variable boost pressure) to really reap the true potential of E85. That being said, if you were to take any given engine and run it at it's stoichiometric ratio at a given condition and switch it from gas to E85... the E85 would require 33.6% more fuel to maintain a stoichiometric ratio and while doing so would produce 28.3% less energy on a per mass basis. Thus you would tend to see a slight increase in power. However, the claims that Turbo2Cam made about making more power on leaner AFR's is simply a fallacy. It is physically not possible to make more power at a leaner ratio with a fuel that has a lower energy density.

i love you Rob!

but to back up dietz a little..ive seen a thread on h-t where one tuner did a comparison on gas vs. e85 on a customers car where e85 netted him 6% more power. it also liked to be a little richer compared to gas. it was an n/a car but he didnt want to list what mods the car had..ill look for that thread.

[Tom]

If people are going to talk about this they should talk about it logically... I will post a link to the 20 page report I wrote for an engineering course comparing gasoline (octane if you want to call it by its correct name), hydrogen and E85 if anyone is interested. As far as making power vs not making power is concerned. The truth is you would need either a drastically higher static compression ratio or a dynamic compression ratio (I.E. variable boost pressure) to really reap the true potential of E85. That being said, if you were to take any given engine and run it at it's stoichiometric ratio at a given condition and switch it from gas to E85... the E85 would require 33.6% more fuel to maintain a stoichiometric ratio and while doing so would produce 28.3% less energy on a per mass basis. Thus you would tend to see a slight increase in power. However, the claims that Turbo2Cam made about making more power on leaner AFR's is simply a fallacy. It is physically not possible to make more power at a leaner ratio with a fuel that has a lower energy density.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85_in_standard_engines#Air_fuel_ratio_comparison

I'd still run it.

[Rob]

i love you Rob!

but to back up dietz a little..ive seen a thread on h-t where one tuner did a comparison on gas vs. e85 on a customers car where e85 netted him 6% more power. it also liked to be a little richer compared to gas. it was an n/a car but he didnt want to list what mods the car had..ill look for that thread.

ILU2 Zex... as far as the 6% gain is concerned, that's exactly in line with what I said about taking more fuel but producing slightly more power. So his results are exactly in line with what the numbers say they should be. As far as truly requiring the extra 30+ percent fuel at stoich... you can somewhat negate that by the higher octane and higher evaporative cooling effects thus raising the detonation threshold at leaner AFR's... you just can't have both at th same time.

For a long time E85 was being pushed as a nation wide alternative to gasoline which with prior ethanol technology was completely non-feasible... however, with recent advanced in cellulose ethanol the fuel load yield of bio material has greatly increased to the point where it is now a true possibility but only if that technology comes fully into fruition.

[northendtrooper]

Hey Rob. Is there anyway you could load up that paper you did? I would love to read it.

[Rob]

http://myweb.cableone.net/rdcarlson/final%20report.doc

There's the report.

[spastik]

Very nice, out of curiosity, what did you get as a grade on it?

[Rob]

^ Thanks, I got nearly the highest grade in the class, it was a very high A.

[APEXMX5]

I run E85 in my turbo miata. I did my research and found that I could benefit from it so I switched. I am making more power at the same boost level than I did on 91 or even 93. It has its pros and cons but for my racecar it is worth it.

[revsx]

I've been told it can help you pass emissions and stuff like that. is that by an ychance true?

[Rob]

It will help you pass emissions. It does this because emissions are simply the results of the chemical reaction of gasoline and air burning in various ratios (ideally stoichiometric meaning no excess of either part when the reaction is over). E85 having a different chemical makeup than that of gasoline produces different byproducts. The reason you can pass emissions on E85 is that the emissions are simply different and emissions testing only looks at the levels of certain compounds coming out of the exhaust. So it's not as though it's making a car run better with no tuning of any kind, simply differing what comes out the pipe.

[revsx]

yeah cause i wan supposed to do emissions last month but didnt casue the way it sits there is no way it would. and people said do that then others said it wasnt the magic cure all